WHEN IS A WEBSITE Mis- or Dis-Information? When is personal truth ‘Absolute Truth’?

People used to believe anything that was printed. It must be true. Otherwise it would not have been able to get printed: the sources were ‘learned’ and ‘professional’, i.e. trustworthy, and the publishers were ‘experienced’, i.e. ‘commercial’.

Since the internet has made it possible for private investigators, researchers and writers to express their knowledge and understanding, people have the chance to make up their own minds, whether to ‘believe’ or to ‘know’, if something is or rings ‘true’.

As a system analyst and philosopher of science, I have complemented Einstein’s general and special relativity by absolute relativity.  Similarly, I don’t think there is ‘absolute truth’. There is only ‘personal truth’ and ‘current understanding’ of any situation.

In that context, I am fortunate to know a lady who is very sharp in analysing websites and can spot mis- and dis-information sites from a any distance. In fact, she has analysed

I seriously hope that readers of Victims Unite are also learning to tell the difference between mis- and dis-information as techniques for covering up, worse than ‘spin’, and truthful blogging.

About Sabine Kurjo McNeill

I'm a mathematician, software designer, system analyst, event organiser, independent web publisher and online promoter.
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28 Responses to WHEN IS A WEBSITE Mis- or Dis-Information? When is personal truth ‘Absolute Truth’?

  1. thanks for the video links, interesting subject.

    everyone is subject to being called trolls, because everyone is human, their understanding and opinions will vary to some degree, or even be poles apart from the sensible to certifiable.

    call me a troll or shrill if you want, i wonder if david icke has done more harm than good to getting the truth out, he has sold lots of books, he is a great researcher, but throw in the lizard queen and it discredits the whole message, let alone blowing up the moon, without these items in the mix he would be outstanding in getting the truth out there.

    alex jones, terrorstorm, one of the best films out there to awaken you from the mainstream views of history, Zeitgeist is another, as is moneymasters……. however alex jones tried to panic america and cause riots on millennium eve, as bill cooper pointed out, just what was or is going on in the background is anybodys guess.

    veterans today, 80% disinfo as they admit themselves – yet the 20% truth is hard to distinguish from the tides of very clever disinfo.

    christopher story, his work on the anti eu movement was incredible, his grasp of world events especially russia, monumental proportions that will stand the test of time, his untimely death was a tragedy, but unlike icke and others he swore the queen was working for us, to remove bush and blair…………..

    how many of us knows if the dvd do exist? m shrimpton says they do, he also says heath was a german spy, others say he was a russian agent, either way his boat trips to jersey and saville tie in …………….

    wheels within wheels, maybe all separate agendas maybe not,either way it is very much a balance of probabilities,

    either way more and more facts are coming to light, sooner or later critical mass will be reached, the dam will break, infighting achieves nothing, it slows us down.

    common sense tells us disinformation on the www and in the media is rife, its std operating practice, the fun part is trying to distinguish the truth.

    just because one blog will not put up a comment by another bloger for whatever reason does not mean they are trolls or shrills, lets be brutally honest, there is a line people will not cross, whistleblowers and truthers walk a fine line between being a nuisance or an enemy of the govt, accidents happen, suicides and falls from tall buildings.

    attacking brian, kate and co at the uk column is really low, underhand and dirty, he is doing all he can with what he has, if people want him to do more then get involved with the uk column, there are only 24 hours in a day, he is busy as a bee for most of them.

    both brian and roger are trying to make a difference, roger went to prison, common law and restoration are in the mix now, but without more backing will remain ideals, its up to us to push this all forward, yes people will go to prison, it will take a long hard fight to get a real justice system, it will be an even harder fight then to stop it from becoming corrupt, its the nature of the beast.

    brain has exposed common purpose, he has been vindicated, he has made people aware of the bradley pound, interest free money, the uk column cannot cover everything, but what it does expose is making a difference.

    everyone has doubts about everyones agenda, what matters is what difference we as individuals make, its much to easy to criticise others while doing nothing to bring about real;change.

    keep up the good work sabine, its making a difference.

    • Ah, Thank You, dear Knight of Albion!!!

      “The fun part is trying to distinguish the truth.”

      You’re painting a great ‘kaleidoscope’ of truth with all its facets and wheels within wheels.

      The fun part for me is also the difference between speaking and writing, between ‘exposing’ and ‘empowering’ and between opinions and facts.

      I’m still puzzling over the mechanism that made Sharon decide on the ‘shill criterion’: do you believe the Hollie Greig story?

      For me, no single question can serve as a Litmus test to label someone as a ‘shill’.

      But then I like to tackle complex systems and will forever believe that we are spirits having a human experience for a reason – no matter how much or how little we know / understand / communicate / advocate or even evangelise!

      Many thanks for your wonderful comment again!

      • I agree no single question or answer can label or denote someone as either less informed, or maybe even more informed or a troll-shrill-disinfo agent, but over the course of time or even a few posts it can stand out a mile.

        i find mixing religious views muddies the water, everyone can think what they want about life, or an after life, it matters little until you are dead, pushing up the snowdrops lols.

        that might sound strange, harsh or callous, truth is we do not know until it happens, with luck that will not be to soon for any of us, until then its a moot point, without wishing to criticise any viewpoint, anything is possible, we dare not risk relying on gods, spirits or aliens, masters, channellers or any other such be-lie-fs in stopping the truth from coming out.

        if life is a learning lesson rather than a one trick pony show it makes no odds to those who are starving, who have no water to drink, those who are locked up for political reasons – i will not buy into the poor mans excuse that people choose to be born victims and die in brutality – it negates all sense of purpose or justice, its a get out clause for child abusers, rapists and royals.

        Do i know about hollie? yes, I have read copiously about robert green and others, lord burtons article in the ex news of the world on masons being infiltrated, about the children shot in scotland, about peter power, the fire in london, his removal from the dorset-somerset police, or should i say his resignation, his 7-7 drill on 7-7 the press covered up despite him announcing it to the nation live on air………………

        whereas we have plenty of evidence on power, we have no physical evidence on poor hollie, but we do have a proven record of the system using children as sex toys for their servants, m15 taking smiths records away is proven proof of that,

        on the balance of probabilities hollie was a victim Sabine, but i was not there, so can only balance my viewpoint on the way the system abuses children, especially those who can not defend themselves, i guess they get more thrills from that sort of abuse, or maybe they think the crime is easier to get away with?

        there are so many cover ups nearly exposed but still hanging on like limpets, toxic air syndrome, orthophosphate’s getting into aircrafts through the bleed air systems on planes, orthophosphate’s killing farmers in sheep dip, killing vets, dentists with mercury and so on, all are proven but denied by govt-insurance, companies and so called experts who are paid by these enemies of the people to keep quiet.

        we live in a country where our current pm is up to his neck in the mire, from phone hacking moguls to 250k bags of cash for cosy suppers- he travels with arms dealers in private jets, but leaves his daughter in a toilet in a pub.

        seriously its like a plot from an old penny dreadful, throw in lending a police horse and andy fixed it for me coulson…………….. and thats just trying to keep tabs on one of the govt members ……………..

        how many people know that while the gay vote was going on the secret courts bill was passed again by the govt, sneaky dirty tactics, its up to the house of lords to now pull the fat out of the fire………………

        Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2276327/Last-week-MPs-revived-corpse-Secret-Justice-Bill–debating-gay-marriage-time-noticed-Here-spell-terrifying-implications-life–Secret-Britain.html#ixzz2KWdwzo00

        every bloger is trying to get something important out onto the www, all parts of the jig-saw, its near impossible to follow it all.

        I would love to see icke and ian and others pooling their wealth knowledge and experience into something like the uk column, maybe going onto other platforms, but as yet it has not happened, it depends on how genuine a desire they have for real change as opposed to making money, its not up for me to judge others actions or non actions.

        as you know, your blog says it all victims unite, there is strength in numbers, we are fragmented because we are trying to fight on so many levels, if the proverbial dam had but one hole, it would be easy, but the dam has gone, we are all trying not to drown throwing out life rafts of information.

        we know change must happen, but so do those who really run the show, the same bankers funded cromwel as the king they leant money to, his head rolled, but the money lenders still smiled, they will have plan b and c,

        which takes us back to shrills and such, in a round about sort of way……

        question for you this time, if assange is genuine, where did the two data discs go on tax avoiders he was given publicly by the now imprisoned swis banker?, who sold the germans-eu data discs on tax avoiders for over 1 million pounds as was reported some time ago?

        • Wow,

          What a gold mine you are, dear Knight of Albion!

          You’ve certainly done the rounds! What prevents you from starting a blog or running a forum?

          But, yes, in a way it’s impossible to create the ONE portal, the one event, the one paper, the one video.

          For I guess, yes, life is one learning lesson after another, not a ‘trick pony show’!

          And it’s hard to make sense of non-sense, isn’t it!…

          J J J

  2. actually it would be possible sabine, for icke and others to work together, when they are not doing the circuits, it would also save them time and money by running one combined blog-www, which they charge for anyway to cover costs.

    they know what we are up against, thats for sure.

    uk column and tpuc are very good and informative, although they need funds they keep it free to view, relying on donations from us all.[like pie n mash]

    thank you for sharing the post on the secret justice bill-courts, it has just come through, the more people that know the better.

    you never did answer the question on julian a, and his data discs…….. lols.

    ttfn.

    .

    • I’m afraid I don’t know the answer to the data disc questions, dear Knight of Albion.

      And I certainly think that Julian Assange is genuine!

      Let’s keep smiling despite all the horriblenesses… especially today, the 68th anniversary of the bombing of Dresden… I was there, barely 5 months old… And wars had been made illegal in 1928…

      Sighs and tears…

    • John says:

      Hollie Greig is well briefed.There is not one shred of endeivce to back the claims.Hollie’s Uncle Roy Greig committed suicide see death cert. autopsy and very clear motives.This is evil with self seekers exploiting 2 VERY vulnerable women.Robert Green is an evil, dishonest, liar who has criminally and irresponsibly named claimed victims of paedophiles he has named without one shred of valid endeivce.Robert Green is a dangerous dishonest menace in society backed by gullible fools.

  3. Oh dear, Sabine, is this the best you can come up with?

    You’ve just revealed more evidence [if it were needed] that you are a shill in your comment “The fun part for me …” Well you may be having fun [at the expense of real victims] on one of your 50 websites, expressing gratitude to a fellow spineless time-wasting fake. We victims are not having fun. This is not a bloody game. Who is this knight in shining armour of yours? How much do you pay this idiot to defend you?

    Knightofalbion, why do you hide behind that silly name? Reveal your identity you spineless piece of shit.

    You say Icke would be “outstanding in getting the truth out there”. Is he allowing free speech re the Hollie Greig can of worms???

    Where’s the evidence you are a genuine warrior against the NWO? What are you doing to expose corruption?

    You say “everyone has doubts about everyones agenda”. Genuine ‘Truthers’ do not have agendas only a determination to expose the Truth. Fakes like you have agendas. You say “the fun part is trying to distinguish the truth.” As said, genuine Truthers do not have fun trying to expose the Truth; they get persecuted to hell.

    You talk about real change. The evidence is that you have a lot of time on your hands to troll sites like this and spend an awful lot of time waffling in a pathetic attempt to bamboozle the public.

    Genuine warriors against the NWO are genuine victims and we do not have time to play this game of yours and we certainly do not find it fun. But I can see how it would be to you trolls when you’re earning a decent living from it. Well, enjoy it while it lasts. Sabine, you can try to bury the truth as much as you like with your intellectual waffle, but you’ve been exposed and your days are numbered. I will be very surprised if any genuine victim, once they have seen the evidence that you are a shill, will waste any more time commenting on ‘Victims Unite’. Do yourself a favour, disappear quietly and spare yourself any further humiliation. As a scientist you will know plenty of laws; well here’s one you need to learn: First law of holes – if you find yourself in one, stop digging. There is a way you could climb out of that hole though with your head held high – you could develop a conscience, gather a mountain of courage and come clean. I noticed butlincat said on the post ‘ABOLISH the BAN on Recording Court Proceedings …’ that “people should look into her past a bit more to see who she really is”. Well, why don’t you tell us, Sabine?

    Shills and trolls, let’s look at the difference between them – there isn’t much; they’re both the lowest forms of scum on earth. I found this which sums it up:-

    A shill can be both a shill AND a troll … they often are.

    But a troll isn’t necessarily a shill. A simple troll is a bullshitting, shit-stirring liar. Someone who enjoys creating hate and discontent. They are most happy when they are helping to generate strife.

    A shill is a turd of another sort. They are usually a paid liar and disinformation specialist. But often very troll-like as well. Which is often part of the personality of those who “earn” their daily bread by lying, and by selling out their fellow countryman.

    • Sharon, i hope you feel better having vented your frustration out in such a tirade of venom.

      now would you take a deep breath, calmly and factually state why you think hollie n her abuse is a can of worms?

      as i stated, given the systems abuse of children it is probable,

      if you knew anything of our history, you would understand the name albion,
      As for knight of, the great satan, the beast is depicted as a dragon, knights were known for quests – and killing dragons, in legend that is.

      if you have an axe to grind with sabine, list her 50 odd sites, or whatever you have problems with, let us all see the evidence or hidden history you allude to.
      i have neither met nor corresponded with sabine bar response to a posting on victims unite, i have no reason to suspect her of anything other than running a blog.

      i subscribe to a lot of blogs sharon, i very rarely comment, but when i do put finger to keyboard i mean what i say, and i say what i mean.

      everyone around the world is a victim sharon, from the food we eat to the water we drink, they may not realise it, but they are.

      we are, i hope all trying to expose the lies and corruption, i am not trying to bamboozle anyone, i am trying to point out how hard it is to get a true grip on the so called truthers out there- if you do not recognise sarcasm in describing the fun part of trying discern truth from lies – humour in the face of the enemy is better than fear.

      now you can say i work for trolls are us, shrils incorporated at 50 pounds an hour, or you can explain what you are trying to say in simple terms.

      if you have information i do not, please share it, we learn from each other or you can just rip away again..

    • Sharon

      My LinkedIn profiles is on http://www.linkedin.com/in/sabinekmcneill. You may find other places with biographies. I have nothing to hide or to fear and can’t possibly know what Butlin is alluding to.

      My 50 sites are on http://www.SabineMcNeill.co.uk

  4. Pingback: A ‘Shill Test’: do you believe the Hollie Greig story? « Victims Unite!

  5. Anonymous says:

    Perhaps it is time for those that believe; and those that not believe to air a column each and let the people decide.
    The theory of psychological diversions, spin and doctrine against facts will allow a reader to determine for his or her self.
    Let the people decide. The enemy at large drooling over the instigators’ brain washing may not be so comfortable if equal oxygen is given to both sides of the argument.

  6. Knight in shining armour,

    If you were a genuine victim of corruption you’d be spitting feathers too when you realised that people like Sabine are ‘controlled opposition’. The evidence for that is here http://sharonkilby.co.uk/site/PROVEN_SHILLS_-_SABINE_K_MCNEILL_AND_BELINDA_MCKENZIE.php Have you bothered to read the evidence? Please also see http://sharonkilby.co.uk/site/war_on_shills_post_for_VU.php and http://sharonkilby.co.uk/site/WAR_ON_SHILLS.php

    The evidence is that you are not a victim. The evidence is that you do not give a fig about “trying to expose the lies and corruption”. Where is the evidence that you are doing that?

    Why can’t you reveal your identity? Point me to your website where I can see you are doing so much to help others. It would appear that you have been sent on a damage limitation exercise. You are almost certainly a freemason; you are certainly full of masonic speak; I should know I have plenty of experience of that.

    I have do not hate Sabine, I simply despise liars and deceivers. Such people need to be exposed for what they are. Genuine victims like me and others that she pretends to help have wasted years going round in circles because Sabine doesn’t want us to get truth and justice. Her actions just prolong our suffering. If she was a true ‘victims’ champion’ she would be bursting with enthusiasm to lead a campaign to expose the controlled opposition; the NWO gatekeepers. Instead she prefers to waste time courting MPs, all of which, as any genuine victim knows, have been bought and paid for years ago. Sabine knows it too because it has been pointed out to her. I happen to know genuine victims, who have stacks of evidence of State corruption that have asked Sabine for help, but have been given short shrift.

    Why do you spend so much time and trouble defending her? You are doing a lousy job. If I was her I’d sack you and get myself another knight in shining armour.

    Now, onto the HG can of worms. Dear Lord, give me strength! It is so hard being a victim. Do I really have to spell everything out to you? You are such a numpty; bless you. Look, it doesn’t take Einstein to figure it out. There are a number of actors playing a role at the behest of their masonic masters. The actors are the controlled opposition lot – mainly the ‘Big Guns’ but there are some of the lower profile ones taking part too. Now, I can’t prove that but I am working on it and whether I’ll live to see it proven is another matter!

    Why do you not look at the evidence? You say “on the balance of probabilities hollie was a victim Sabine, but i was not there, so can only balance my viewpoint on the way the system abuses children…” You just waffle about children not being able to defend themselves… Can you not think for yourself? Hollie is a victim of evil, lying manipulators such as Robert Green and her mother who concocted the ‘Hollie demands justice’ story. The evidence is that she was not abused; she was sexually active with her boyfriend; her mother Anne Greig sought contraception for her. According to Robert and Anne, Hollie named 22 individuals that abused her, giving their FULL names and addresses, including their professions. She is supposed to have remembered this from when she was aged 6 to boot. Such an idea is absurd. There are numerous videos, radio and tv shows of Hollie which clearly show that she has severe language limitation such that the HG story is proven to be a hoax on that one fact alone. If you want more proof, see http://www.theholliegreigcoverup.net/the-end-of-hdj.htm Also see http://wideshut.co.uk/hollie-greig-hoax/ where it is revealed that some of the members of the paedophile ring that has supposedly operated for over a decade in Aberdeen, Scotland, don’t even exist and other alleged victims were either not yet born or adults before they even met Hollie and have publicly denied they were harmed in any way. The conclusion being “the exploitation of an innocent down’s syndrome girl by snake oil salesmen, dubious activists, Christian fantasists, psychological manipulators, and delusional truthers”. Wideshut.co also say that psychologist Eva Harding who assessed Hollie in later years has ties with the dubious Tavistock Institute, and Robert Green met with a Tavistock linked Christian group, including MPs and Lords, who appeared to want Green to sex up the satanic side of the story in to a “satanic panic”.

    The BIG question you have to ask is why did the ‘Big Gun’ ‘Truther’ shills take the ‘Hollie Demands Justice’ story and run with it? Why did they not spot the evidence immediately for themselves? It is glaringly obvious that Hollie simply does not have the capability to utter more than a few basic words. A 5 year old could tell you that. People like Richard D Hall have made themselves look ridiculous by promoting this story. Just watching him interviewing Anne and Robert and attempting to interview Hollie is cringeworthy. Why didn’t he reach for his bullshit buzzer instead? How can intelligent, learned, capable people like Sabine, Belinda, Brian Gerrish, Ian R Crane, Bill Maloney, David Icke, Robert Green … be taken in by such a story and STILL believe it now when there is so much evidence to prove it is a hoax? Why do they refuse to look at the evidence? If Icke was a genuine ‘truther’ he would be encouraging open debate on his forums and elsewhere to ascertain the facts, but that is not the case; the opposite has happened; he was happy to promote the story internationally, but when presented with evidence that it was a hoax he refused to comment and banned all mention of it from his forums. Ian R Crane and Brian Gerrish also refuse to look at the evidence and will not engage in dialogue with anyone who questions the story. Ian Crane could only manage a limp claim that it was not his area of expertise and he also deleted all comments from his wall. Bill Maloney also refuses to look at the evidence. Why will they not discuss the evidence with the Holliehoax camp? On 5th December 2012 Ben Emlyn Jones offered his services as chairman. He said “The only solution therefore is for the two sides to come together and engage in an open, live and public debate. So far this has not happened; to their credit, the Hoax side have been the ones most forward in that respect.” http://hpanwo-voice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/hollie-greig-real-or-fake.html The reply was “Ben indicates that he is confused and has decided that the only way to clear his confusion is to have an “open, live and public debate” on the intricacies of Hollie Greig’s abuse. We must apologise to Ben, because the Hollie Demands Justice campaign is not here for the benefit of Ben Emlyn-Jones or anyone else who may simply feel ‘confused’.” http://holliedemandsjustice.org/ Notice the wording “intricacies of Hollies Greig’s abuse”. Ben did not say that and he did not suggest a debate on Hollie’s abuse. Word twisting is lying. It is clear that the HDJ side are not sincere. If they were they would be happy to debate. Conclusion, the above named [and no doubt others] are all either in on the masonic plot or they’ve all completely lost their marbles. Why would anyone in their right mind believe anything these people say now? They have all made themselves look like complete and utter idiots and we have been idiots to be taken in by them. Any so-called ‘Truther’ who believes the HG story is off with the fairies and is an embarrassment to the ‘Truth movement’.

    The next question is WHY? Well I agree with Ben when he says “I have contacted both factions with my offer and we’ll see what happens. One trope the Skeptics always use is the “conspiracy theorists are not interested in evidence!” Well I think this proves that we are! Unless this debate becomes more than hypothetical then I don’t see how we can possibly move forward on this issue, and this is going to affect our credibility across the board and hamper everything else we do. Some come together, guys! Let’s talk!” The key words are CREDIBILITY and HAMPER our efforts. With the HG issue muddying the waters Joe Public is going to think all of us ‘Truthers’ are all barking. We genuine victims who have stacks of evidence of establishment corruption are not going to be believed and we are all going to be dismissed as ‘conspiracy theorists’. Of course this is exactly the plan of the masonic infested authorities and judiciary; whenever the finger gets pointed at them they can now come out smelling of roses as they can now dismiss any allegations of cover up regarding genuine cases of child abuse by high up paedo rings. Meanwhile the suffering of little children continues and the NWO trundles on. Now we have this bad smell that is the Hollie story, anyone seeking answers within the ‘Truth Movement’ will just give up. Job done. It only takes one questionable story like the HG one to cast doubt on all victim stories. We genuine victims have a mammoth task trying to convince anyone [even loved ones] that corruption [all Masonic controlled] occurs on the many and varied levels that it does. When you have so-called ‘victims’ champions’ such as Sabine and Belinda successfully fuelling the disbelief, you’re really screwed. You can have sack-loads of evidence of State corruption, but no-one really cares. Only another genuine victim of the establishment [freemasons] will believe you and will be motivated enough to try and challenge it. All genuine victims who have contacted me say: “you just couldn’t make it up”. Unfortunately there aren’t enough real victims – yet – to mount an effective challenge. [See an extract from ‘The Brotherhood’ on ‘A SHILL TEST’] So, as Ben says the whole truth needs to be established immediately. The truth will reveal the shills and it goes without saying that they must be ousted if we are to have a credible ‘Truth Movement’.

    The sincere Truther is only concerned with 100% Truth and will do everything in his/her power to seek it and to expose it. Half-Truthers are the opposite of truth and are MORE TREACHEROUS TO THE ‘STOP THE NWO’ WARRIORS THAN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND THE SHEOPLE [and that’s saying something!]. Anything less than 100% truth is a betrayal of Truth.

    Controlled opposition specialises in half-truths and buses to nowhere. Lies do not hold any weight, the Truth can take care of itself.

    As said, genuine truthers and opponents of the NWO know we are in a race against time and know that the stakes could not be higher. You, Mr Knight, might have all the time in the world to play these games; I do not have time to waste on liars and fakes like you. I have precious little time as it is; my time is spent earning an honest living doing full time work, housework and looking after my family. [My youngest two children need lots of TLC right now – see links above.] Just remember the noose you and Sabine and your ilk are helping to tie will tighten around your own necks too – eventually. People who are on the side of evil are liars and cowards and they are not loyal to each other when their time comes to face their injustice and hardship. Genuine warriors are God’s servants and, although few in number, will stand by each other and the truth.

    Also, as said, you are a spineless piece of shit; and that’s the truth. Take some advice, go and find Jesus and then go back to your masonic handlers and tell them to go take a hike; tell them that from now on you are on the side of truth. Tell Sabine to also find Jesus.

    • Sharon, thank you for the links, i shall look into them and see how or why you think as you do ref hollie.

      from what i know, robert green has been to prison, the system is doing everything it can to close ranks on the systematic child abuse of children, i presume you follow blogs like – http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00%2B01:00&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00%2B01:00&max-results=50

      there are so many now trying to expose the truth, people who know people on the inside, who have seen these cover ups first hand, i have not, as i said seen or been party to what happened to hollie, but it fits all the criteria of child abuse, scotland as you must know has very very big problems with its judges and such, as lord burton pointed out in a now article.

      if you had read my comments you would see i do not comment or do religion, but i am sure jesus would weep at what christianity has done in his name.

      i realise you are hurting, i have no desire to take away the significance of your problems, the system is making victims everyday, all over the world.

      no, i do not run a web site, or a blog, other people do, i just send any interesting links to them, a join up the dots type thing.

      as one of the marx brothers, groucho i think said, i do not have to take this abuse from you, there are lots of people who wish to abuse me………..lols.

      As for sabine, i see all your comments are up here on her blog, which given your language is surprising, she is more tolerant than I would be, i do not mind contradiction, we learn through our mistakes, unlearning is easy- its your language i object to Sharon, its offensive, it also detracts from any points you are trying to make.

      as far as i can see, sabine is doing her level best, if you do not like that, or you can do better, please do better, we need everyones help, the more the merrier,

      now its late, time for me to find a bridge for the night, its a hard life being a troll.

  7. peter oakes says:

    You really do need to Google : Royal Commission Inquiry NSW Police
    Paedophiles. Vol 4. final report.

    Now that is the Truth the other volumes I believe 8 in all, are not available
    to the public Why ?

    Sabine allows these comments so how can you claim she is not genuine ?

    And it should be obvious to a nit wit the british authorities are fully aware
    of these horrific goings- on by judges, TV personalities, police officers
    MPs, social workers etc.

    Get real Sharon, you will be claiming Dunblane killings are a myth next !

  8. Ned Stark says:

    The irony is that when Sharon first began posting on this site she supported the ‘blocking’ of at least three contributors on the basis that they questioned the authenticity of the Haigh and Musa stories.

    She has been hoist by her own petard.

  9. I supported the blocking of trolls ned stark. I am now questioning whether some stories may not be genuine.

    Peter, there has been a problem with wordpress so there has been a delay with one of my comments. Sabine blocked one of my posts. I have spelt out in detail why she is not genuine. Please read the evidence for yourself. Do you think it is ok that we have a ‘controlled opposition’??? If not, what are you doing about it?

    What’s Dunblane got to do with it???

    • I did not ‘block’ your post, Sharon.

      I asked WordPress for help, included you in my communication, found your comment in SPAM and ‘freed’ it from there.

      I’m now curious as to why WordPress thought it was SPAM…

      • I was referring to my post re Belinda. Remember our exchange of emails? You said: “I can’t possibly go against Belinda, Sharon. She does her absolute best but is not as ‘radical’ as you and I are, but is it in her own way. I built http://www.belindammckenzie.wordpress.com for her.” My reply to that was: “Sabine, I don’t think this is about going against Belinda, this is about establishing the truth about the Hollie Greig affair. Please will you at least post my comment on V/U and your response to it.” You then said: “I’m afraid I can’t do it, Sharon! Anne Greig told me she doesn’t want anything about her and Hollie on my site!” That was one of the things that got me suspicious, why would Anne Greig not want reference to her and Hollie on V/U when you and Belinda are such staunch supporters? Why didn’t you question her about that? Why didn’t you mention that in your first email to me? It looked like an afterthought. In any case it didn’t stop you going into great detail about the Hollie story on A ‘SHILL TEST’.

        Will you now answer the question that I asked re the shills, will you please name the people you believe are shills.

        Also, will you give your view on freemasonry.

        • Why would Anne Greig not want reference to her and Hollie on V/U?

          Belinda said because of Chinese whispers about me, which were mainly started by Brian Gerrish. Belinda was determined to ‘do PR’ for me after we met properly, not just at the Royal Courts of Justice, and had a long conversation.

          Why should I question someone who is adamant / determined?

          Why should I have mentioned it to you?

          Yes, I am hoping / assuming that Anne is NOT reading Victims Unite. At the same time, the ‘hoax group’ is attacking BIG TIME. Hence I am taking a stance – the stance that you claimed ‘real Truthers’ should take.

          I won’t name people I believe are shills for I don’t know any. I only know that those two websites are set up for the purpose of mis-information and their publishers are anonymous, the main characteristic of anybody hater / troll / shill.

          Asking about my view on freemasonry is like asking about religion rather than science, i.e. believing rather than knowing. Of course I know that freemasonry is one of the ‘glues’ in old boys’ networks, but clearly not the only one.

  10. Chinese whispers? PR? People can make their own minds up about you, Sabine.

    One of your emails said “You wanted to bring on another topic and I sent you the invitation to become a AUTHOR” Is this what you are referring to? Cos that’s all I received. I didn’t get an invitation. Doesn’t matter anyway cos I’m happy commenting on your boards now and again.

    Don’t lie and act stupid; you know very well what controlled opposition is. But let’s assume you didn’t, it is very easy to find out, as you well know. If you didn’t know how to do that, you shouldn’t be managing a site like Victims Unite. You understood what a shill is. Same thing – NWO gatekeeper. Jeesh now you do sound like a time-wasting troll.

    A war on shills is THE most important topic for a genuine truth-seeker. We have what is strangely known as a ‘Truth Movement’ in the so-called ‘Alternative Media’. The fact that we have such a thing as a ‘Truth Movement’ and an ‘Alternative Media’ suggests that the people who are at the forefront of it are anything but truth tellers. All we need to do is remove the obstacles which prevent Truth seeing the light of day. The task of the genuine truth-teller is to expose the shills and the fake ‘victims’. It can be done with the only weapon we have – the Truth weapon.

    If you were on the side of truth and you were genuinely trying to help victims you would want to know who the shills are. You would want to expose them. You would declare war on them. These ‘people’ are despicable traitors. “Anyone who stands in the way of Truth, at any level; and does not actively propagate the Truth they know and resist this tyranny at some level, is helping to create death, destruction and suffering. Therefore they are on the side of darkness and a traitor to humanity.” – ‘Digger’.

    Why didn’t you let Butlincat post his comment: “There is too much about you to put here – but i know it will all come out one day and we will see you for what you really are. But one question – how long were you doing the NLP course in America, hence your brainwashed “guard dogs” who will not hear a word said against you.? And we know you were married to the asst. director of the Greater London Council – you mustve made some top government contacts who must help you a lot. That answers a lot of questions, btw.”

    Why don’t you answer the question, Sabine?

    People can decide for themselves whose side you and Gerrish are really on. I’ve clearly given my reasons for calling you a shill. If readers want more, how about the following, which a genuine NWO warrior sent me:

    “Sabine’s name is Sabine Ursula McNeill. Born Germany.
    Her first directorship was with ” ESSENTIAL ENERGIES” [Go onto Duedil.com]
    Other directorships are with: Chancery Investment Group PLC, 3d metrics Ltd, Smart Knowledge Management Ltd, The Taliesin Project Ltd…
    Her innovation/invention has 3 tiers…..one is about collaborating the human mind with the computer…….where the result is the computer makes your decisions…..
    She’s recently been approaching electrical suppliers to roll out her invention but not too successfully.
    Her invention claims to be able to see medical science issues……which brings me to Maurice Kirk’s invented brain tumor…..iv read an article by her on the maurice kirk website and she claims to come from a legal background which is bullshit.
    All the people she’s been involved with all end up in prison…..all have websites/webpages /wordpress sites that she set up and has full control over.
    I found a quote by sabine which was written on 7 Sep 2010 on one of her usual self blogs. She’s thanking someone for a compliment and goes on to say……Sabine McNeill Post author September 7, 2010 at 7:12 pm. “Thanks for the compliment, Jeff. What counts is how to make things happen and how to respond to those that happen to us.” That very same day 7 Sep 2010 Maurice was in court , distraught…..yet she is blogging about herself.
    I think its her he needs protecting from.”

    Also, re Gerrish:

    “Below are the companies that are all reg at the same address along with his involvements……hes also reg as a journalist.
    Ubiquitous Concepts- put this in google and look at the site.
    Interesting…..and makes the rest of us look like idiots for swallowing his shit. :-(

    Reg Companies at the address common purpose exposed is registered are below.

    Brian Gerrish is registerd with UK column as a JOURNALIST All below info is available on Duedil.com

    The Annexe
    Scott Lodge
    Scott Road
    Plymouth
    PL2 3DU

    Alzeimers Society- Charitable organisations
    Fire Protection consultant

    New Battle for Britain Group
    Housing 21-Homecare & help services
    Roger Hayes-BCG
    B.C.Ltd
    UK Column

    British Constitition Group Ltd –
    2 Drectors- Brian Gerrish &
    (John Galloway – Research & Dev on natural sciences & engineering) 06256627 Notitia ltd

    A general search matched John Galloway to John popham (name change) all credentials match.
    EOS energy ltd – 04060342
    Parent Company- Japan Wind DEVELOPMENT 0046065

    Prudent Finance- Gerrish previous director along with Alexander Borthwick – Reg add Plymouth…..Trading address Kent

    Brian Gerrish’is linked to the below Companies :

    Bailey Energy Management Ltd- 03057921
    Bailey Enviromental Ltd
    Beagle project
    Currie & Brown Widnell
    Datum Energy Management
    Notitia Ltd
    Prudent finance
    Plymouth chamber of commerce”

    Sabine, why don’t you let the Hoax group have free and open discussion on this site? You might as well, because people will only get information out on their own sites and elsewhere and readers can judge for themselves where the truth lies.

    You say “Anne took her to the Police who ordered a forensic examination which confirmed that Hollie had been serially and historically raped since her childhood.” WHERE IS THE FORENSIC REPORT?

    And “As the months went by, Hollie named a further 20 people as abusers. Her father had taken her periodically to meet with this group, some of whom were members of the family. Once again, her mother took her to the Police to make a report. A few days later, in early September, Anne was forcibly sectioned and taken to the local Mental Health Unit. She managed to extricate herself by getting an independent psychiatric opinion and ascertained that the action had been unwarranted.” WHERE IS THE POLICE REPORT? WHERE IS THE REPORT SHOWING SHE WAS SECTIONED AND THE REPORT BY THE INDEPENDENT PSYCHIATRIST?

    And “Having failed to get Grampian Police to investigate Hollie’s allegations, Anne obtained 2 expert reports on Hollie and again took them to the Police.” WHERE ARE THESE 2 EXPERT REPORTS?

    And “In September 2009, two officers from Grampian Police came to Shrewsbury to interview Hollie. She spoke to them for 3 1/2 hours on her own, giving full details of the ordeal she suffered.” WHERE IS THE POLICE TRANSCRIPT?

    And “Anne at last obtained the autopsy report on her brother’s death in 1997 which only deepened her suspicions that it had not been suicide.” WHERE IS THE AUTOPSY REPORT?

    And “pressure was put on the Shropshire authorities, supposedly by Grampian Police, to inhibit Anne and Hollie’s activities. In June 2010 their small house was raided and smashed up by the Police.” WHERE IS THE POLICE REPORT?

    The evidence is that Robert Green and Anne Greig are liars and that Hollie is not capable of naming 22 abusers, their addresses and professions. The Hoax group have showed that this story is full of lies and inconsistencies. I will just mention a few. According to the Hoax group:

    People accused as abusers didn’t exist
    Other named victims deny any claims they were abused
    Locations named by Robert Green do not exist.
    Robert Green & Brian Gerrish deliberately misrepresented the forensic medical evidence, because it most certainly does not show, nor does it mention, abuse.

    Robert says he overheard Hollie naming all 22 individuals while sat outside the interview room, and he noted them in his notebook. There is clear evidence that Hollie is badly affected by her condition. That was clear in the Edge Media interview and other videos. It has also recently been confirmed by her brother Greg, and Anne’s best friend for 5 years Wyn, that Hollie simply would not be able to recite the full names, addresses and job titles of the so called perpetrators. Even if she could, where would she come by that information? Are we meant to believe they introduced themselves maybe? Even if it were true, you would not hear clearly what Hollie would say sitting outside ANY room when most people could not understand what she says when sitting right next to her. Robert claimed his notebook was stolen by the police. As Hollie’s lay legal advisor surely he would be able to get a TRANSCRIPT OF THE INTERVIEW? HE HAS. BUT HE WON’T MAKE IT PUBLIC.

    Mark Daly told Robert & Anne that he could not run with the story. Robert claims it was because Daly said he would lose his job. ROBERT WILL NOT GIVE PERMISSION TO MARK DALY TO RELEASE THE TAPES OF THE CONVERSATION THEY HAD.

    I understood Hollie was interviewed TWICE by the police. WHERE IS THAT POLICE TRANSCRIPT?

    Greg L-W says “Grampian Police interviewed Hollie and her mother several times from 2000 onward and filed a report with the procurator-fiscal in Aberdeen. Different officers re-investigated the claims in 2009 after the case blew up on the internet. They filed another report to the procurator-fiscal.” PLEASE CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MANY TIMES POLICE INTERVIEWED HOLLIE.
    The Edge of Reason forum http://edgeofreason.myfreeforum.org/archive/hollie-greig-appeal-latest.__o_t__t_158.html states:

    I can confirm that Hollie did not meet the Dragon children until they were in thier 20’s. So how could they have all been dragged off to the sheriffs sister’s house (esp. as she doesn’t exist, and the Sherriff didn’t live in the area until the year 2000) to be abused?
    When questioned, this was also corroborated by Greg Mackie. He stated he “knows that Wyn’s children were not abused, because Hollie never met them at the time”.
    Robert had a chance to go to court in March 2010. Why did he not, and then moan about how long it has taken the system to process him?
    Why did they lie about what the autopsy ACTUALLY says? Stuart Usher even agreed it did not say what Anne & Robert said it did.
    Why did Robert state there was a “D” notice? Who told him that? We all now know there never was one.
    Why are the 2 pieces of medical evidence that show no signs of abuse on Hollie, constantly ignored or categorised as corrupt? Belinda McKenzie described one of the doctors as a “Paedophile” because he could not medically corroborate the story saying “he must be involved then.”
    Why is the Doctor’s letter showing that BOTH Anne and Denis enquired about contraception for Hollie, therefore knowing she was sexually active ignored or categorised as corrupt?
    Why is the fact that Hollie had a boyfriend never admitted, ignored or simply not talked about?
    Why is there no transparency regarding funds collected for, or on behalf of HDJ? (The authorities have been notified!)
    Why can Belinda McKenzie not explain her involvement in the “Iran Aid” scandal where 75 million flooded into Europe but should have gone to orphans in Iran? (Charities Commission Report.)
    Where is the evidence of a police woman threatening to kill Hollie at a petrol station and how could Hollie hear that through the window? Also, no cctv?

    The edge media interview also clearly shows Hollie did not believe her dad was going to kill her, her dog, or her mother as claimed and still claimed by Anne and Robert. Anne actually ACTUALLY CHANGES Hollies words in the interview.

    Why don’t you ask ROBERT AND ANNE OR ANYONE FROM HDJ to produce all the evidence?

    http://sharonkilby.co.uk/site/Why_the_HG_story_may_hold_the_key_to_revealing_the_shills..php

    Philip Thompson, I hope you are still reading. You commented, “People in white coats are on standby and know of her.” Please tell me why you said that and where you came by such information.

    • I am closing this ‘debate’, Sharon, by restricting you to your own web territory and stopping you from abusing mine.

      This site is meant to empower, inspire and connect. Its purpose is peace, not war.

      I have never ever seen as bad an example of mis-interpretation of web information and hearsay as this unfair and malicious libel, besides the complete absence of respect for the ‘sub judice’ confidentiality required for Hollie’s court case.

      People’s claims about NLP courses are as much rubbish as I ‘made government contacts’ through my husband. He had long left the GLC when I met him. Utter fantasies and speculations, fuelled by negative emotions. Welcome to the ‘real world’, eh!?…

      There are enough court cases for fighting untrue statements that I won’t give yours (or your ‘sources’) any more of my time and attention.

      If you didn’t get my authoring invitation from WordPress, you might want to check all of your email addresses. However, it’s too late now.

      Good luck with your war on shills, while I fight my battles my way.

  11. “I am fortunate to know a lady who is very sharp in analysing websites and can spot mis- and dis-information sites from a any distance. In fact, she has analysed. The Big Picture in this 16-minute video where she spells out her criteria for mis-information”
    The video as above has an awful lot of information for a geriatric brain such as mine.
    I would be grateful if the lady who presented it could give me information about herself, i.e. Full name, location & a potted biography.
    I am Norman Scarth, born in Yorkshire & lived there most of my life till the age of 86, now living in Athlone in the Republic of Ireland. http://www.normanscarth.blogspot.com tells much about me, though it is not as up to date as it should be. My email address is againstcorruption@hotmail.co.uk

  12. Lake of Fire says:

    This “analysis” of the website video is poor to say the least. Firstly, the site’s owner’s name is clearly visible on there- he displays his Email conversation with Brian Gerrish of the UK Column.

    Second, the “aim” of the site is clearly visible – “exposing the New World Order”.

    Thirdly, the list of links to “mainstream” press articles is common practice – Alex Jones, Uk Column, 21st Century Wire and the like do that all the time. Why is that not acceptable on this particular site?

    Sadly I think THIS page is more likely the real dis-info.

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